Craps Strategies?

[gamalicious]

Hey Guys,

Stupid kid here, doing my thing. I've been reading up on some craps strategies. If you don't know about them, they basically involve trying to take down the house advantage as much as possible. So far, I've read about the famous "Doey-Don't" bet, apparently popularized by Mr. Sinatra and just the general idea of taking down house odds by using pass-line odds.

Main questions here: If you have any cool strategies you wouldn't mind sharing (parity hedge system?...or if you think it's a hoax sound off too), please post them here. Also, is there any betting that'll get you booted from a casino? (if they look down on DDs)

Dice may have no memory, but I do, so post what you can and I'll try and remember it at the tables!

~Stupid Kid

[wildpitcher]

My biggest strategy at Craps is "quit when I'm ahead" ....

I only do pass or don't pass, come or don't come, with single odds. I'll sometimes place $6 on the 6 or 8 if the original numbers were cruddy (eg 4 or 10).

Most of the other bets are sucker bets. I'll do a "two way hard 8" as a tip sometimes, because it's fun to yell and throw the chips. The dealers always seem to appreciate it (especially if it comes in).

I love Craps. But the swings are large and they come fast. What's that line from "Viva Las Vegas"? " ... all you need's a strong heart and nerves of steel ..."

[gamalicious]

See, I've been reading that the Big 6 or 8 is also a sucker bet with a house edge of 5 or more. You are definitely right about the strong heart and nerves of steel. You need to plop down 100 to win 5 at craps, so I may just reserve the game for if I get lucky enough to play with some of the casinos money. Don't worry though, I'm not hopeful.:(

[Nidan]

You should always play pass line on the come out and take full odds, also place the 6 or 8. Avoid the bets in the center of the table, house has too much advantage. Best way to learn is to play at a comfortable monetary level:confused: Once you know your way around the game, you will develop your own strategy. Good luck.

[LJG0722]

Craps has to be the best game in the casino. All the systems seem to have major flaws in them when I do my own analysis. The best way to reduce the house edge is to go full odds. If you are at a small Casino like the Casino Royale, you can go up to 100 times odds. You have a five dollar pass line bet and the point is six or eight and you really load up on the odds, you have reduced the house edge and will be in good position if lady luck is on your side. Going full odds is also a great idea since that is the only bet in the casino where the casino pays you the exact true odds on their payoff so if you have fifty dollars as an odds bet on a six or eight, the odds are 6:5 against you so when it hits they give you the $60 which is true odds payoff and no where else in the casino will that happen. Find a hotter shotter and load those odds up - good luck

LJG0722

[gamalicious]

Hey, thanks LJG. More questions for you and others. When people speak of 3,4,5 odds and the like, are they talking about passline odds? Do any tables give better odds on "Buys" than 6:5, 3:2, 2:1 ? Or is that what the 3,4,5 is talking about?

~Stupid Kid

[defranksa]

The best bets in Craps are-Pass line bet with full odds-and two Come bets also with full odds.Maybe you can also buy $12 6or 8. THATS ALL
Big Tony

[wildpitcher]

Hey, thanks LJG. More questions for you and others. When people speak of 3,4,5 odds and the like, are they talking about passline odds? Do any tables give better odds on "Buys" than 6:5, 3:2, 2:1 ? Or is that what the 3,4,5 is talking about?

~Stupid Kid

3x4x5x odds refers to maximum odds on various numbers, for pass line odds or odds behind a come bet.

3x odds on 4, 10 (pays off at 2:1)
4x odds on 5, 9 (pays off at 3:2)
5x odds on 6, 8 (pays off at 6:5)

You'll note that all the max odd bets pay off at 6 units

I don't do the "buys". I will place $6 on the 6 or 8 at 7:6.

[Diceman1274]

Hey Dude before you go to Las Vegas buy a book on craps a basic how to play and learn the bets and payouts before you go .The game is complicated but easy to learn once you understand all the bets and percentages.

there are all kinds of stratages on craps .so get the basic game down and then read about the startages of different old time playes .
The best bet in the Casino is Knowledge of the game you play.
good Luck
Diceman

[Maggie Mae]

First, I agree with wildpitcher in terms of quitting while you're ahead. I call it the "art of knowing when to color-up". I don't claim to be perfect at it yet, but I'm learning.

Second, there's a guy in Vegas who will go out to the tables with you - The Craps Teacher. www.thecrapslesson.com

So if you're going to Vegas, you can book an appointment with him. ;)

[mrvegas]

I have heard the saying many times from old timers, "dont collect till it turns green"
If betting "red chips" on place bets, i keep pressing till they turn "green", then collect.
A $40 - $50 bankroll can payoff nicely.

[easyeight]

Have a good plan to Manage your Money and use Discipline to follow that Plan. I recommend John Patrick on Craps. Very good on Money Management and Discipline.

Craps is a very exciting game, easy to get carried away and lose big. Make a plan before buying in and stick to that plan. Good Luck and use care.

[WACO]

how many times have we all headed for the craps tables and said. THIS IS THE DAY. you start to feel pretty good when one shooter rolls for a while and making his or her point. Then that dreaded 7 shows up. remember those words. 7 OUT LINE AWAY PAY THE DON'TS. Well that.s what I do . I play the don't pass, 6 and 8. that's it that's all. i am there a long time and having fun. Once in a while i will throw a dollar in on midnight or the hardways. Remember to tip your waitress.

[vu-doo]

give me 12 across , full odds , press it up.

[gamalicious]

See, that's my kind of strategy. Play the don't pass and ride on the place 6 or 8. Maybe buy some 4s and 10s for the payouts. And of course get the odds where I can to take down the house advantage. The real question, Waco, is how do you do it so you fly under the radar? The most intimidating thing for me will be slippng in my don't pass bets and holding down my excitement while I rack up chips and they keep playing the pass line and giving away their dollars. I don't really fancy getting punched by some crazy mofo just because of how I bet (I know this wouldn't happen...right?).

Why bet on anything but the most common number, right?

Give me more! I want more strategies! Any number nerds out there like me? C'mon now, we all know you're hiding, but this is a (relatively) safe place to share info!

~The Stupid Kid

[WACO]

Hey Gamalicious. You are right about the hoopla, yelling ,screaming, high 5's and all that. SO WHAT. I mostly play dice at the coast casinos. Lots of locals gamble there. I used to be a high 5 screaming , yelling nut case. But most of the time the hoopla fizzled. I was watching an old timer from the Bronx N.Y. who now resides in summerlin playing nothing but the don't pass. I asked him if that is all he plays. He told me You want to give your money away do what the others do.
"Remember the 7 will always come back to bite you son." We ended up talking for a few hours playing, with many different faces coming AND MOSTLY leaving from the table. What does that tell you. Don't get me wrong a 2 hour roll would be nice as well.But how often has anyone seen that. ANYBODY OUT THERE PLAYED AT A TABLE WITH A HOT SHOOTER?? What was their or your longest roll? Share your memories. Good Luck

[bluestreak]

Make sure you have a clear area to put your beer. Get those old highball glasses and ashtrays out of the way. A Craps table is usually the quickest buzz in a casino.

Betting with everyone else is alot more fun than betting the darkside. You are all on the same team. You don't have to bet the Pass line if things are a bit bleak...change things up with just Come bets. Of course take some odds according to your bankroll.

And throw them as soon as you get them.

[Maggie Mae]

The pit boss at Bally's was hot! Started with a $100 layout and 20 minutes later...cashed out at just under $11,000. No hour-long roll or hardways bets needed. Has anyone else out there seen that kind of action before? If you have, I bet I know where, or from who, you learned how to do it. It doesn't happen every day, but then how often does it have to happen if you can discipline yourself and your bankroll? I guess that's the trick, eh?

Per an earlier post...John Patrick doesn't have a clue...Plus, saw a Google ad on this site today that "guarantees" you'll win money everytime you play. RUN! from anyone that tells you that, but then I'm probably preaching to the choir on that point.

[Maggie Mae]

There are two reasons why you shouldn't ever do Come bets:

The first is - What kind of a bet is it where you have to hit a number twice to win once? Hmmm...sounds like the casino is thinking about their bottom line when they advocate Come bets...

Y'all should be able to figure out the second one. I'll check back later to see what kind of answers people have.

Good Luck!

[LJG0722]

3X 4X 5X is the standard maximum odds that the larger casinos allow - what it does is limit the amount that you can win on the odds bet based on your pass line bet. So if you have a ten dollar pass line bet, you can have $30 odds if the point is four or ten, $40 odds bet if the point is five or nine and $50 odds bet if the point is six or eight. No matter what the point is, you will win $70 in total: ten dollars for the pass line bet and $60 for the odds bet. So the 3X 4X and 5X limits the payouts.

Now you go to the smaller casinos especially down town and they will allow much higher odds bets. Again, it is the only payoff that is the true odds so it is a good deal - as long as Lady Luck is on your side and the shooter makes her point.

The "buys" are for the four and ten. For the standard "place" bet on the four and ten, they will pay you 9:5 which is not the true odds but if you pay the "vig" which is one dollar per $25 bet, they will pay you 2 to 1 which is the true odds for fours and tens versus sevens. Since you are paying the vig, you are not receiving the true odds. The good thing about Vegas is they do not charge you the vig until you win while at Foxwoods, they charge the vig when you place the bet.

Hope that helps and good luck rollling those bones - best game in the casino especially if you have some interesting folks at the table - great people watching scene as well.

LJG

[vu-doo]

what was the casino that offered 100x odds on craps?

i think there were a few casinos that had 100x odds in the past.

[Cat_in_awe]

There are two reasons why you shouldn't ever do Come bets:

The first is - What kind of a bet is it where you have to hit a number twice to win once? Hmmm...sounds like the casino is thinking about their bottom line when they advocate Come bets...

Y'all should be able to figure out the second one. I'll check back later to see what kind of answers people have.

Good Luck!

Making Come bets is just fine. It's EXACTLY the same bet as the Passline bet, you just do it when it's not the come-out roll. The next roll 'becomes' the come-out roll for your Come bet.

Yes, the number has to appear twice to win the bet, but that's true with the pass line as well. And that idea completely forgets about the fact that you are a 2-1 favorite to win right away with the 7 and 11, (against the 2,3,12 where you lose right away). 8 ways to win, 4 ways to lose).

I like to play the passline, make two come bets, and put single odds on each. If I get ahead, I'll increase the odds. If one of the come numbers win, I'll replace it with a new come bet. Very low house advantage, and I get lots of action on different numbers.

GPC

[WACO]

Casino Royale On The Strip Offers 100x Odds.

[easyeight]

I have won 1000 to 4000 on several occasions, I have lost as well but never
a big loss because I have a Loss Limit.

The argument over Come vs Place will go on forever, with both sides having good points to make. I like to start with Place bets and change to Come bets after several bets hit(Down with odds).

By the way, MaggieMae, everyone is entitled to an opinion for sure. You say with no reason why "Patrick has no clue". Then you say 'don't play come bets",John Patrick agrees with you in his books. Who is clueless here?:D

There are countless methods of play, none are necessarily right or wrong, just diffirent opinions. In our short sessions of play in Vegas, Lady Luck still prevails, Smile on us all please:cool: ;) :)

[wildpitcher]

There are two reasons why you shouldn't ever do Come bets:

The first is - What kind of a bet is it where you have to hit a number twice to win once? Hmmm...sounds like the casino is thinking about their bottom line when they advocate Come bets...

Y'all should be able to figure out the second one. I'll check back later to see what kind of answers people have.

Good Luck!

Maggie Mae, as you know, the come bet is exactly the same bet as the pass line bet. Same odds, same ability to back it up with true odds, same scenario for winning and losing.

Do you not make pass line bets either?

Sometimes I will wait until after a point is made and then bet the "Don't Come". That way I'm not betting directly against the shooter and the rest of the table.

[WACO]

Remember The Dice Have No Memory.

[jrinct1]

Usually do regression on place numbers at most houses. High limit tables might just play the pass line.
MAJOR exception is playing at CR. Minimum line bet with the MAX i can afford on the odds.

[wildpitcher]

Usually do regression on place numbers at most houses. High limit tables might just play the pass line.
MAJOR exception is playing at CR. Minimum line bet with the MAX i can afford on the odds.

Could you please explain the meaning of "do regression on place numbers"? Thanks much in advance.

[carolebeenc]

I'm just learning to play craps and want to practice while in Vegas Dec 6-12. Where are low limit tables and patient dealers who won't mind answering some questions? I have been reading and studying and have a good idea of how to play but become intimidated by all the chips flying around and everyone yelling bets, ect.

Will be staying at Rio, Imperial Palace and Harrahs but will have a car on the weekend.

[Maggie Mae]

But First - Thank you easyeight. I needed that! :o

The second reason you don't want to make Come bets is that you can never take advantage of a long roll. If the 7 comes out on the comeout roll - you have to replace those come bets. With place bets, you get "free parking" during the comeout roll. Of course, the bets aren't working - but you don't lose your money either. That way you only lose your place bets when the 7 hits while the point is established. So unless you have a huge bankroll to replace that Come bet - assuming that you've pressed it up - you can lose your best bets/money on the comeout roll with Come bets. I guess in table lingo, you don't have to "fade" the 7 on the comeout roll with place bets.

Per the first reason, I should have said, "With a Come bet, you have to expose your money to a higher risk level (than is necessary) twice to win once." Miminmize your risks and maximize your gains. Minimize your losses and maximize your wins. Numbers can be made to lie, and when you examine them without the casino spin on them, they show you amazing things.

Hope this helps someone, and I'm glad to have sparked a touch of debate.

P.S. A friend of mine insists that this is not a matter of opinion - there is only one best way to do something - craps included.

[Maggie Mae]

carolebeenc - Try playing earlier in the day. 9-10 am or so. There are still players, so you won't be alone at a table, but there's typically not as much action/yellling etc. that would get in your way of learning. The dealers are not having to handle so many people, so it is easier for them to work with you.

I love the dealers at Paris, but the hotels you've listed would be good in the morning too.

The only places I've ever encountered "less than friendly" dealers are Bally's and Caesar's - but maybe those folks were just having a bad day. :confused: Anyone else run into that?

Good Luck!

[gamalicious]

Hey Y'all,

Thanks for all the responses. Keep 'em coming.

For carolebeenc, here is the site I practice on. The odds are set 3x,4x,5x standard. I don't know how true to the game it is, but it seems decent. I encourage everyone to check it out.

http://www.t45ol.com/play_us/1531/casino-craps.html

http://www.t45ol.com/play_us/1452/casino-craps.html

Both require plugin downloads if you don't have them, but you shouldn't have any problem with pop-ups or anything. I use Firefox and it works great (perhaps that's why I don't get pop-ups...).

Anyway, try it out and let me know if you like it. I think the most unrealistic thing about it is that you can get a roll every 10 seconds, while a real table takes much longer. Hope this helps!

~The Stupid Kid

[wildpitcher]

But First - Thank you easyeight. I needed that! :o

The second reason you don't want to make Come bets is that you can never take advantage of a long roll. If the 7 comes out on the comeout roll - you have to replace those come bets. With place bets, you get "free parking" during the comeout roll. Of course, the bets aren't working - but you don't lose your money either. That way you only lose your place bets when the 7 hits while the point is established. So unless you have a huge bankroll to replace that Come bet - assuming that you've pressed it up - you can lose your best bets/money on the comeout roll with Come bets. I guess in table lingo, you don't have to "fade" the 7 on the comeout roll with place bets.

Per the first reason, I should have said, "With a Come bet, you have to expose your money to a higher risk level (than is necessary) twice to win once." Miminmize your risks and maximize your gains. Minimize your losses and maximize your wins. Numbers can be made to lie, and when you examine them without the casino spin on them, they show you amazing things.

Hope this helps someone, and I'm glad to have sparked a touch of debate.

P.S. A friend of mine insists that this is not a matter of opinion - there is only one best way to do something - craps included.

Huh?

Mathematically and otherwise, the Come bet has exactly the same odds and playing characteristics as the Pass Line bet. No difference whatsoever.

This is not a matter of opinion. This is mathematical fact.

[Maggie Mae]

Huh?

Mathematically and otherwise, the Come bet has exactly the same odds and playing characteristics as the Pass Line bet. No difference whatsoever.

This is not a matter of opinion. This is mathematical fact.

I am not talking about PASS Line bets vs. Come bets...I'm talking about Place bets. Are we on the same page now?

[wildpitcher]

I am not talking about PASS Line bets vs. Come bets...I'm talking about Place bets. Are we on the same page now?

Sure... why not.

However, the come bet with odds is a better bet odds-wise than any of the place bets. The place bet on 6 an 8 isn't bad, though, and I'll often do those instead of a come bet. So, I'll agree with you there. The up/down swings are normally greater with come bets, too, which can be good or bad (depending on whether the swings are up or down)

No worries, Maggie Mae, we all enjoy our craps and there are many ways to play it.